Guitars for Real Musicians

Craig

Just thought of this question: According to some sources, a bolt on guitar actually sustains better than a set neck. This is of course contrary to conventional wisdom, which says the opposite is true. Anyone want to weigh in on this?
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greentintedsixtiesmind · Garage Jammer Joined: 27 Dec 2009 Posts: 67

Well NOWADAYS this is true. Thanks to modern research of bolt on necks many companies like Fender and Ibanez have magnificently tight and sustainging necks. The other hand of this game is that companies like Gibson are using inferior glue now. The old formulation of glue is more expensive so they use a new, less strong and resonant glue. Les Paul took the glue into consideration into his guitars, but Gibson does not follow that same thought. I read somewhere that one in five Gibson Les Pauls made since the mid eighties will or have needed the neck or headstock glued back onto the body due to the weak glue. PRS however uses a special glue that really is quite magnificent. Before the early eighties many companies like Fender didnt put too much time and effort into bolt on neck technologies, mostly because it was already an inexpensive technology and also because it was too new of a concept. Also the drive from set neck companies guitars' sustain was another factor in researching the technology. Hope thats a little light on it.

Phantomotaku · Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:25 pm Post subject:

I had heard the same statistic about Gibson's as well....

I had always thought that any glue used in the neck joint of a set neck guitar would act as a 'deadening' agent by absorbing some of the overtone vibrations coming from the neck.

on the other hand with bolt on necks you have surface contact vibration transmission as well as the four bolts. If the neck bolts loosen you loose pretty much all sustain.

neck-thru is probably the best ( and by best I mean most expensive) option for sustain transferring vibration from the neck to the bridge most efficiently however there is no real way to swap out a neck say if something goes horribly, horribly wrong like it gets a crack in it.

As i've entertained the thought of designing guitars the last 6 months or so I've been trying to find ways to improve resonance of bolt on neck guitars.

here is what I've come up with so far:

This should provide a direct route from neck to bridge hardware and should audibly increase sustain (theoretically, that is) and should not audibly affect tone
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When someone asks you if ya paid your dues, you just stare that big sucker right back in the eye, and you remember what ol' Jack Burton always says at a time like that: "Have ya paid your dues, Jack?" "Yessir, the check is in the mail."~ Jack Burton

greentintedsixtiesmind · Garage Jammer Joined: 27 Dec 2009 Posts: 67

I like your theory Phant, but mathematically does it work? Now its a good theory (I use "theory" because this has never been done, although you may want to look into Kramer Guitars Aluminum necks) but the mathematics and weight makes this quite challenging. Something to consider with this is the overall weight and balance where the weight is on the neck. As we know, with flying v shaped guitars the neck takes up most of the weight and as is known dives straight for the ground. If you were looking to build a guitar this way, think about strap button positioning. It could be the difference between a balanced guitar and a divining rod. Also, too much resonance, unchecked can be dangerous. As with any gausian bell curve following substance, when the medium is dilluted the curve becomes extreme causing distortion. Also consider the wood. If its too tough, the vibration itself could turn the brass into a pry bar built into your neck. Also the wood itself is a consideration. Brass is a very tinny, higher pitched additive to a guitar which in combination with an ebony neck, for example, would create a very tinny tone.

As with the Gibson neck glue issues, its very common. I know a bunch of guys from my local music store who have befriended the local luthier because they send him Gibsons that are coming apart like old couch cushions. Fenders used to have an issue with loose neck bolts, but now I believe there is a compound used in the bolts and wood to facillitate better sustain. Also the neck pockets are on extremely tight. The science of a bolt on neck guitar is fascinating. The science of any guitar is fascinating! Neck thru guitars are percieved as the best, but with theyre lack of functionality, form and usability past repair they are a bit more of a hassle than either set or bolt on necks. As you said, once you get a nice bow going, the guitar is kindling. Also I have heard, with some lower end neck thrus, that the wings glued onto the mid section have sometimes loosened, due to the joint used in assembly. The standard butt joint with that much glue and wood, under that much constant tension release/ increase will surely falter at some point. Hope that gives ya somethin to think about! I really like your brass idea though! Get that patented!

Craig · Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:24 pm Post subject:

Wow. That's a lot to chew on! More to it than I thought, actually. You guys have some interesting ideas, I must say. Never thought about the glue itself having much effect on things either. I do know that back in the golden era, they were using hide glue, whereas now they use something else which is doubtless cheaper and supposedly stronger (Franklin Titebond), but the acoustic properties, who knows...

Thanks for your ideas! Cool stuff.
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Phantomotaku · Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:59 pm Post subject:

That diagram isnt to scale...not even close. After taking measurements from my strat I'm thinking maybe a solid piece of brass or aluminum that runs the further down from the claw to where the bridge screws in to the body
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When someone asks you if ya paid your dues, you just stare that big sucker right back in the eye, and you remember what ol' Jack Burton always says at a time like that: "Have ya paid your dues, Jack?" "Yessir, the check is in the mail."~ Jack Burton